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Jul 25, 2022

Revit tools, the future of BIM, and how to problem solve are all discussed in in this episode of Fire Code Tech. Majd joins the interview from Estonia and shows great passion for all things BIM. 


Bird Tools Website:

YouTube Channel:



Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly.

Inside of the context of a normal interview. Hello, all welcome to episode 57, a fire code take on this episode, we're speaking with mod. Mo is a mechanical engineer with a background in programming and all things Revit. On this episode, we talk about MOJ and the company. He works for bird tools, which stands for building information, research and development, which is a very interesting company with some custom.

Tools for Revit users. If you enjoy Revit or anything on the more technical side of design, you're gonna really enjoy this episode. Maj and I talk about APIs design and how automation is gonna play a role in the future. What does the future of Revit look like and what are some ways that we can develop and improve the software or what competitors are looking to do to capture the market share.

Don't forget to subscribe. So you never miss an episode and follow us on social media. also, if you could do me a huge favor, you wanna support the pod, please go and give a five star review on apple podcasts. Let's get into the show. Well, ma thank you for coming on the podcast. Welcome to fire code tech.

Thank you for having me guys. And, uh, it's a pleasure to be here. I'd like to get the interviews kicked off with asking the individual about their background and just to get a little bit of context about, um, their career and their, uh, valuable experience for the listeners. Would you tell us about that?

Yeah, definitely. So, uh, I'm a mechanic engineer with, uh, back in MEP engineering and a master's degree in mechanical engineering and, uh, Before starting. Uh, so I'm founder at, uh, building information, researchers and developers, which is a company behind who is a company, uh, located in Estonia before that I've worked as an MEP engineer and I've been manager for several years, uh, and, uh, I have experienced with, uh, Mainly.

So my background is an meep one and I have experienced, I've worked on several, uh, MEP projects from, um, commercial buildings, uh, big transportation buildings, such as natural stations and, uh, air airport. And, uh, um, and um, most of my work was an EP engineering and, uh, bin management. So. uh, we found rabbit, uh, a couple of years ago back, uh, back when I was still an engineer.

And, uh, most of our work shifted from AutoCAD to rabbit and, uh, that's where we started to find new ways to do stuff and to automate stuff and to compensate, lack, uh, that. Maybe rapid has, or maybe that we feel that we need to implement. And, um, I started enjoying that and, uh, that's what led me to start, uh, my development journey and, uh, that.

All of that. That was the, uh, creation of Bluetooth and, uh, the company. So that's, uh, summary of my background. So very cool. Very cool. I appreciate the high level overview of your background. That's interesting to hear that you have a mechanical engineering background and you've somehow wondered, uh, really become invested in this.

BIM or Revit space. It seems like sometimes I see people who are, uh, like BIM managers or who are very invested in Revit. They come from more of a computer or software background. So that's interesting to me that you have a, a mechanical engineering background, um, to tell the truth. So, um, software development and, uh, it, knowledge was kind of my.

Hobby. So a hobby of mine and a career of mine kind of, uh, intersected somewhere. And, uh, that's what led to bur tools. And I think that's healthy to. Uh, people from architectural background from engineering background, uh, take on, uh, software development, uh, because one of the problems with the industry is that you have software developers coming from a computer background and, uh, maybe engineers that don't really relate to software.

So the software solutions that. Being implemented kind of you feel that there's a certain distance from what actual engineering or what the actual domain looks like. So having someone that has both, uh, size of the. Um, of the industry would, uh, maybe enable you to, to create, uh, better software that is better adapted to the industry's needs.

So that's something I appreciate. Uh, we're seeing a lot of people with different backgrounds starting to take on, um, software development and implementing APIs. So that's something I appreciate, uh, right now, uh, within our domain and industry. So yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, that's kind of how I found this podcast and really got more interested in BIM tools for myself was, is a hobbyist.

I started to. Code and to do a little bit of web development. And, you know, as soon as you kind of, um, start to and get invested in it and learn about it, you just realize how much interesting work there is to be done in the field. And so, uh, yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying and the very perspectives of people, bringing people together, all kinds of roles to understand and make better tools.

I think that's a great point. Um, just for how to just create better content in, um, tools for the whole industry. So I love hearing that about that. That's good stuff. Yeah. Glad it's meet you. Yeah. Yeah. So I was listening to one of your, um, podcast appearances you have on your, uh, bird tool. Well, I guess we should start with, uh, would you tell people a little bit about bird tools and you know, like, Uh, just a company's goals and, uh, you know, just a high level overview of bird tools.

You give us a broad background of a little bit of your professional role history in your, you know, kind of project background, but speak a little bit more about what bird tools is for the listeners that might not know about it. So, uh, uh, both tools is a package of, uh, evidence that, uh, aims to. Try to first automate some of the boring, a repetitive and mundane tasks that a user encount is every day.

And, um, second objective of, uh, both tools as a pack is to try and find new ways to implement, uh, functionalities that are not really. So maybe you can do them through the API. It's kind of hidden deep somewhere that no one really found. So there's a lot of stuff that have, have already been done, but we trying to explore stuff that, um, we kind of, uh, Uh, the first people to do, uh, maybe we'll talk in detail about that later on in the podcast.

Uh, so that's both tools as a pack. So both tools, uh, the bird and both tools comes from the company name, which is building information, researchers and developers. So bird is actually an acronym for the company name, uh, building information, researchers and developers is a company business so that, so we have, uh, we, we have our.

Software pack that is both tools. And we have, we provide the software development services. So let's say there's a company that needs their own automation workflow, internal one that needs to be customized because as you know, Uh, standards, uh, are everything but standards. So every locality, every region has its own, uh, set of rules.

Uh, so, uh, everyone has its own way to design. Everyone has its own way to. To sometimes, even from company to another, from firm to another, you have internal standards that differ. So, um, so to try to automate and economic model that, uh, for everyone, um, we provide that custom development, uh, software development.

Uh, service that tries to enable companies to have their own solution. So basically these are the services that, uh, the company behind Bluetooth provides. Um, the goal is always to try and make a difference to try and spread knowledge, to try and, uh, uh, bring value to the industry. So along with junior, it's not just, uh, um, uh, our business is it's also.

Certain journey to try and, uh, teach people or bring knowledge to people or spread knowledge about maybe rev about BIM, about, uh, software development. Uh, there's a lot of knowledge sharing on, uh, social media, online blog. Uh, Because you want to bring value along the way. So that's one of the main goals and missions of, uh, of us, of, of what are doing in general.

And, uh, um, a certain future goal is to try and, uh, see where we are going and try to find the, what, what is, uh, API over the future? What is, is it, should we do our own API for the future? Should we find a certain API, uh, that. B is the base of the future BIM platform. So that's always the goal and that's always a research research and development part of the, uh, business that we are always, we constantly, we constantly investigating, working on to find what the future would look like and to try and, uh, be part of it.

Uh, so, um, That's basically what, who we are and, uh, what we do. Yeah. I like that. I, you know, I heard you speak a little bit about your experience with the API and kind of how the, uh, API for Revit. And there are people listening who might not know what an API is, but. It's a application program interface. So it's how for coding or for different, um, ways to integrate with a, uh, platform or a piece of software.

And so what Mo is talking about is how can we make the. Way that we interface with Revit or, or BIM services more robust. And what does the future of that interface look like? So I think that's a very fascinating topic. What are some of the like big gaps or areas in which the, the current API could improve in your, in your opinion or your estimation?

So currently, um, the main, uh, platforms that is being used to. implement BI everywhere is rabbit. So, um, rabbit, the great thing about rabbit is. It's, uh, it can accommodate several disciplines, um, from architecture to structure to E P to so every discipline is in the AC industry is kind of accommodated. And, uh, but the problem is rather, uh, is that it's not really a multiplatform, uh, or a multi operating system software.

So you start. With a certain platform, which is windows that's one problem. Another problem is that, so rabbit is a, is like a 22 year old, uh, maybe even, uh, yeah, a 24 year old software, I believe. Uh, first, uh, came out in 1998. So, um, the engine behind the internal engine that rabbit uses is almost as old as rabbit.

So it doesn't, it hasn't had its own. Main revamp. So it's really lacking a lot of new features that you can you see, for example, in the gaming industry of. Um, or, uh, in, um, web apps or, uh, this is where, uh, Revit has really, um, is limited. So, and these are some of the platforms that, and technologies that we need to investigate gaming engines, gaming engine integration, the technologies behind gaming engines.

That's something that would improve performance and, uh, would, uh, improve. Especially the rendering part of the, of the, um, outcome. Also something that you need to investigate to make, uh, uh, maybe maybe enable more, uh, uh, features is multi-platform compatibility, uh, and be compatible with several, uh, devices and several browsers and several platforms that that's where you need to investigate, uh, all web APIs that are.

Around all the web technologies that emerge on a daily basis. Basically. Now, Autodesk, if you're talking about Autodesk, uh, and focusing on Autodesk Autodesk, introducing forge, which is something that we started working on, uh, heavily and forge is kind of supposed to be. API of the future has, is supposed to answer some of these, uh, um, limitations.

Um, it's it has already answered some, there's still still on, in an early phase, so we see how it evolves. But, uh, the future has started to, to, to, uh, be implemented as a. A series of web APIs. Uh, so yeah. Yeah, I think that's very interesting that, you know, we need to take a look at other industries and how they are growing and developing software and just applications online and learn from what they're doing.

I think that, you know, I wouldn't have known that before you told me about. The, just the kind of internals of it. Haven't had a revamp, but I could see that now, in retrospect, looking back at the development for Revit. And so, I don't know, I think it's an interesting topic, like a full revamp of Revit or a competitor to Revit that has the abilities to, you know, embrace some of the, uh, more futuristic technologies.

Interfaces and, and software development and whole, I think that, uh, that would be interesting, but haven't seen anybody who's really even close to. Capturing the market like Revit does, maybe you would have some insight on other people who are competing or starting to compete. Have you seen anything like that?

There's plenty of people that are doing amazing work. Uh, the problem is that, uh, everyone is taking one side of the industry and not the other. So you see a lot of great work in the architectural side. You see a lot of great work on the structural side, not much on the MEP side, unfortunately, but, uh, um, That's the main problem.

So rabbit has it all. So until we find someone, I think we start with rabbit for at least, uh, five or 10 years. Uh, five, if, if you're optimistic five, I think at least 10 years, because of mainly of that, uh, because, uh, Anyone who's starting, that is taking it from one perspective and not all perspectives.

That's the main problem, but there's a lot of work. So test that are doing great work. Uh, um, there's great work that is being done in trying to create some interoperability. We're doing some of the, that stuff within tools, interoperability between software platforms and there's a certain, uh, solution that is emerging that is trying.

Make interoperability between software platforms and softwares, which is, um, uh, uh, Specker. So Specker are trying to do that, trying to, to make some ity between, let's say Revit and rhino and, uh, uh, or Revit and, uh, and other it, a software platform. So, uh, that's one way to start, but having the. Solutions that can, uh, have underneath every discipline.

That's something I don't see, uh, happening anytime soon. That's where rabbit thrives. And that's why rabbit is gonna stick, uh, for, uh, for rabbit. Yeah, that's interesting. I appreciate that extra explanation on people kind of specializing and having good solutions for specific disciplines, but. Kind of the umbrella, everybody except for civil, you know, is always encapsulated in Revit.

And so I would imagine it would be hard to shake that base that Revit has, but that's very interesting. So. Um, speaking on, like, you know, some of the tools you made, the, the one that I saw from, uh, social media that you were showing that I know gives me pain all the time is the, uh, leaders, the leader tool, which I thought was a great, because it, uh, aligned all of your leaders at the same angle and the arm for the leader was the same length and it was all kind of standardized.

Um, but yeah. Specifically, I don't know. Would you give like some examples of some specific tools that you've made so people can have some idea of like, if they might be. Um, useful for them or if they should go check you out. Um, but I'll drop some links in the show notes if people want to go look, but also you could just Google bird, bird tools, manual, find bird, tool developers, but, um, yeah.

Would you, would you talk about a couple of the software solutions that you guys have made? Yeah. So, uh, one of them is obviously the tiger line tool you mentioned. So, uh, it comes from a personal pain with several projects where I had to do that myself sometimes. And, uh, um, that's where, uh, it was born and, uh, because you need, so, uh, unfortunately we still using notations.

Uh, I, I look forward to a day where we can just use our, uh, maybe. Mobile phone and have all that information show up, uh, in a neat way. But that day is it has, has come and, uh, it started to be implemented, but we still stuck with sheets for, and, uh, production drawings for a while. So. Um, having neat tags and a good presentation is always a necessity.

And that's where the tag alignment tumor was born to try and not just align tags and, uh, fix their angles, which is one of the future. But to also try to, uh, arrange those tags in a way where they don't interfere, where they don't cross each other. So, um, that's one of the tools, another tool that, uh, Uh, we've developed and published is clash prevent.

So, um, clash detection is one of the, so it's a necessity right now. Uh, and one of the main advantages that BIM gives us over all the kind, uh, uh, workflows. So, uh, we try to push that further into a prevention or avoidance, uh, concept. So instead of you doing clash reduction, why not? Just why you, you draw, let's say a duck or a pipe or a.

Have a certain clash notification happen as soon as, uh, you have a clash and help you avoid that clash immediately. So that's the purpose of the, it runs inside rabbit. And as soon as you have a clash to tell you your clashing, be if it's not, uh, a clash or if, uh, that wall is , or if you gonna place a opening later on, you can whitelist it.

If not, you can fix it on immediately. So, uh, instead of the old, the workflow where. Uh, model your, your entire thing full of clashes, send it to Navis works around the, so you need to export it to Navis works. Nav works would take. So the export process would take a lot of time for big models will be stuck with waiting for, uh, uh, NWC file to be generated.

Designed open in nav works generator, uh, model, assign every clash to someone, send it back. To the people in thel format, the people, the, your, your team, uh, mates would have to open that, uh, Check each clash individually, uh, or try to select it in rabbit, then find it the rabbit. So, um, and then fix the clash.

All right. Listed. So that process would take time. We've tried, we've kind of removed all that, uh, workflow and just made it, uh, um, you get your notification automatically. You can select your flash 3d, see it, fix it automatically. And. you can export repos, import repos. You can even, it has compatibility with Navis V so you can input repos from nav.

So that's another solution, a solution. Uh, we have 10 apps. I'm gonna try to talk about the rest quickly. So we have apps that convert card to them. So. If you have a, a layout with card blocks, you can just, uh, link the card, not import it, link it to, to a rev file and just click on that CAD link. And, uh, it'll find the blocks and either automatically find the nearest ceiling and place where.

New families to in the locations of your cat blocks, or it might also host them to the nearest store or it might host them to the nearest level. So that's one app. We have, we have apps that batch process stuff, batch export to, to NWC, for example, We have apps that can batch process models through Dyna and can batch process BMC 60.

So that's one of the things we are working on implementing for using rev to try and, uh, process BMC 60 using rev. So implementing forg APIs within rev is something that we are working on, on for an upcoming app, uh, as well. Uh, we have several apps that, uh, uh, can also, uh, so we have an app that, uh, is called Raven.

It's a communicator that allows you to monitor. Uh, so as you know, now everything has moved to, to the cloud and we are hosting models to B, C 60. So, uh, and the usual work sharing monitor. Support B, C 60. And, uh, you need to monitor, uh, the work sharing of your users so that you don't have overlapping synchronized with central operations.

So we found a solution for that. Uh, it's called Raven and the Raven can monitor user activity and allow you to synchronize while no one else is synchronizing. So it's a work sharing monitor for BMC 60. And, uh, yeah, so that's, I've tried to summarize, uh, As quickly as possible, but, uh, you can check out all those apps on our website.

Uh, uh, just Google, both tools, uh, is the first result. There's some results that are actual birds, birds using tools in the image section. But, uh, yeah, uh, the very first result is, uh, our website, so you can check them out and, uh, Yeah. Yep. That's funny. Yeah. There's, there's um, good examples and, and videos on the website of, um, the different tools and use.

So if you have any interest in, um, going and taking a look and seeing some of the, you guys also have free tools. So, um, yeah, there are some that, that have a cost to 'em, but they're not crazy by any means, especially compared to what software of any sort can cost for Revit or just in general. But. Yeah, go check it out.

If you're interested in some tools to maybe make your life a bit easier on Revit, but, um, Maja, I wanted to talk to you about, uh, what kind of, um, programming languages you use to make these tools, or, you know, how you. Got started. I mean, did you start in dynamo and just kind of slowly ramp up the, something like C plus plus, or, or Python or what are you using?

So for me, uh, I've started the programming. Uh, so, um, A long time ago with, uh, visual basic and the net platform. Uh, and, uh, now, uh, if we talking about rev, uh, somehow I skipped the whole dynamo and pricing and stuff, uh, for some weird reason, uh, not really with I started the, before dynamo was really, I think, or, uh, was really.

Uh, when back when I started macros were, were the things so dynamo didn't ship by default was rabbit. So, uh, I started with C sharp macros because I had, I already had an experience with the do net platform and I already had the. C and C plus first knowledge. So C C was easy for me to learn and, uh, that's how I got started.

Uh, now, uh, you definitely, so Dyna is a definitely a great place to start, uh, because it reduces, uh, anyone who wants to, to start that automation journey to the automation concept, uh, um, You can hit some limitations with Dyna or some functionality, limitations, a lot of performance limitations. So that's where, so for function, functionality, limitations, you first try to, to find the packages.

And there's a lot of packages that have some of the functionalities that. You need and don't find in the, uh, out of the box stores. So we also have collaborated with Sigma of AEC solutions to create a package called spar. Uh, there's a lot of packages that I create, rhythm data shapes that give you a lot of.

Uh, functionality is that you can't find out of the box, but even with every, all the packages, you, you're still gonna feel that you need more. And that's where you start. If you're starting with London, you might start creating your own custom Python nodes. Maybe people say that Python is easier. Um, I think that's subjective, but, uh, yeah, if Python is easier, you can start with Python within dynamo, uh, after you you've mastered dynam and all of, of the box nodes.

But, um, the ultimate goal is to create others because others are. Easier to deploy and easier to, to, and they have a performance that they can open perform dynamo pricing by a lot. So once you are deploying to a company are the way to go. I had a. New class last year where I talked about that specifically, if you want to check it out, uh, maybe we can post a link to that.

Uh, but yeah, what we do is create others within rabbit. But, uh, one thing to keep in mind is that if you are going. Down the road of, uh, software development. You're gonna need every API, every programming language that is there. So, uh, right now for rev, we are working on C shop. We, we still get some AutoCAD jobs.

So for AutoCAD, you're gonna go and find list, which is, uh, Programming language shows the 1960s. Um, if, uh, you're gonna, so every software has its own programming language that is better for it. Uh, you're gonna have a lot of re to create stuff in Python. And we're working on a lot of software development ventures applying and using the forge API.

So a lot of companies, the ones that are more innovative and try to be more of, uh, uh, try to be early adopters are trying to implement for in assistance. And. Well, we are among a few software developers that have investigated forge to a great extent, and that are really familiar with, with all this APIs.

So once you go forge, you need to check a lot of, uh, uh, frameworks, uh, that are suited to app developments such as react angular. Um, uh, you need to do a lot of CML, uh, coding. You need to, uh, be familiar with JavaScript and type script. So, uh, and really you need every, every. So as much, uh, as you can. So the more programming languages that, you know, the, the better, so yeah.

Uh, you, you need to, to deal with, with it all. Wow. That's uh, that's a good explanation. I appreciate that MOJ. I, it seems intimidating as somebody from the outside in and. Um, I mean, I've spent, I started out really interested in web development, so that surprises me. I've not seen anything about where like react and, and front end kind of software interfaces with like the, the built environment and Revit and whatnot.

So that's interesting to hear you talk about. Forge and how that is, um, changing things and, and pushing some, uh, JavaScript and type script into the equation as well. And then, so, yeah, I don't know. That sounds intimidating. So for, for somebody who's starting out, you would still tell them to try to go from using dynamo, which is a.

Built in kind of, uh, visual coding, um, with Revit or would you like, I don't know, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. You know, I have a little bit of experiences, but sometimes I would think I would just like to skip and go straight to, uh, Python or a C language if I could get some efficiencies and I'm gonna go that way in the long run anyways.

But I don't know if you have thoughts on. Yeah. So my own, uh, advice to anyone who wants to get started is to, so you have two ways you can go visual programming, or you can go, uh, uh, to the old school, uh, script based programming. So if you want to. I would suggest to someone getting started to try both. So open Dyna would try to do a workflow.

And if you want to try, uh, uh, writing scripts, you can do that either within dynamo or you have also a certain, uh, macro possibility. So you can write Python and C sharp macros. If you prefer person who can totally do that within the macro. Manager that is right next to Donald, but it's bottom that is colorless and, uh, and, uh, really very small.

So people skip it, but it's, it's also a possibility to, to start your automation journey. So for anyone who wants to get started, also suggest both ways to try that. Try visual, visual programming through Dyna. Also try, uh, scripted programming and see which one fits you better. If you feel that, uh, it's hard for you to understand the programming, a programming language and programming syntax.

So just go to a visual one and, uh, as, as long as you're achieving what you want to achieve, it's fine. And, uh, maybe I'll tell you a small secret. I'm more comfortable with old school programmers and visual programming. So I I'd rather me, myself as a programmer. I, I would find myself always going to a certain, uh, script based, uh, programming methods and a visual one.

I feel more comfortable and I feel that I write, uh, so routine, uh, way fast than I can. To assemble it and wire it together. So each one has its own way and I'd suggest for anyone to try both and see which one fits in better. So, yeah. That's great advice maj. I appreciate that. I've never heard anybody say that before, but I think you're right.

Um, why not tinker around with both and see if one speaks to you? So I think that's good advice. I appreciate that. Um, so like I mention. A little bit, um, you know, virtuals and you have been in the, the part of creating different YouTube videos and, and content like, um, I know that you spoke to like a big goal of the company is to, is to share these resources, but yeah, maybe speak a little bit more about, um, the YouTube videos and just what kind of content people can find if they want to, um, come see your channel and what you guys are doing.

So, uh, We try to build as much press as possible on social media, on YouTube, on Twitter, on LinkedIn. So these are basically the three main platforms and we have our own blog as well. So blog, uh, LinkedIn, uh, Twitter and YouTube. So these are the main platforms that, uh, we are really active, uh, on Facebook or any of that because I'm.

Privacy concerns. So I'm more, uh, comfortable with YouTube and Twitter and LinkedIn and social media platforms. Um, the main, um, content that you, you definitely gonna find tutorial about our own apps on YouTube or are on our other social media platforms, whether LinkedIn or, but, uh, other than that, as we like to bring value along the way, you, you can find a lot.

Tips and tricks. And, uh, some of them are really simple, uh, and others are really advanced. So several tips, tricks, uh, small, quick tutorial, short tutorial, short videos that can show you new stuff that maybe you knew, maybe you didn't about traffic about, uh, Navis works about sometimes AutoCAD. Uh, some introductions to what forge is, uh, how some glimpses about, uh, stuff we are working on that are not really usual, whether it's a certain, uh, uh, rapid apps that trans in the cloud on forge design automation for rapid, uh, whether it's, uh, it's, uh, certain.

Custom developed apps that we've built and that, uh, where we, we, we can share so anything we can share to, to bring value and to, uh, spread information. That's what we are sharing on social media and on YouTube. So on YouTube, you can either go there with the channel and find there are separate playlists.

Some are, uh, showcase, uh, up to toilets, some showcase, uh, rabbit tips, some try to teach people about rabbit and. About some, uh, uh, aspects of rapid from really simple stuff to really advanced stuff. So that's the kind of stuff you can find on, on our social media. And, uh, yeah, you can just, uh, find the links and, uh, make sure to subscribe or, uh, follow or give us a connection and reach out.

So I always, some also another secret about social media. I manage all of those myself because I enjoy. Talking to, to users and to subscribers. I enjoy. So anyone that has a question or anyone that has a, uh, certain that needs a tip or anything within reason. So I always answer, uh, any direct messages, so just feel free to reach out and, uh, Connect and subscribe and follow.

So every social media has some, you need to subscribe. Obviously you need to connect others. You need to, to press the follow button. So for each social media, just, uh, make sure to connect and contact us because I would reply. I would enjoy. Any conversation with anyone. So, yeah. Awesome. Well, I appreciate that.

That's good. Yeah. That's how we connected. Um, yeah. And yeah, you reach back out and talk to me right away. So feel free to drop magic line. If you wanna talk about software or coding or, or custom tools, I bet you love the, uh, chat you up about it. Um, So I wanted to ask you about, you know, um, what other kind of tools and resources you use because you seem plugged in and really aware of what's happening in the industry right now.

So where do you like to go get information about BIM or about, uh, you know, software development or that sort of thing? So, um, one great, uh, place to find information. Anything related to our industry are the Autodesk forums. So the AutoD desk forums are really stacked with the, so almost any there's a lot of questions you may have that have already been asked by someone else, prime.

Just try the Autodesk forum. So anyone listening, trying auto the Autodesk for you'd find a lot of stuff that you're thinking about, and that have already been answered with someone who has an answer for them. The forums are great. Um, uh, Resources. Um, um, so there's definitely any search would start with, with a search engine.

So starting a search and, uh, going, um, to, would lead you to, to, to several resources. So far programming, there's a, uh,, which can give you a lot of. Of, uh, also, so it's similar to, to the forum, but it has more, uh, specific, uh, so it's more specific to software development. Um, but mainly starting a search with a, a search engine would, would lead you to, to where.

So whatever my, my own advice to anyone that. Starting to learn anything or needs advice. Don't be afraid to, to use the search engine, to, to search for anything, whether it's Google or any search. I'm not, I'm not saying Google or not because I'm leaving such choice to the user, but don't be afraid to search for any question you have, uh, or don't hesitate, hesitate to search for something.

Wasting time to try to solve it or the before asking, because there's a lot of questions you may have that are already answered you, you might learn a lot along the way. So if you are doing something, just start doing it. And along the way, uh, there's a lot of stuff that you'll discover yourself is switching, but there's a lot of other stuff that sources will just get you to the point.

So searching is great. Uh, uh, um, Yeah. Yeah, I think that's great. I think that's the first thing you kind of learned that was you get into, uh, software development or any type of coding is you're not gonna get too far, unless you have figured out how to use online search engines as effectively as possible in searching forums or searching YouTube videos.

And just really doing everything you can to search for online resources is a great start for any. Technical pursuit. So that's a great, um, tip. I like what you said about just like going to the forums and, and searching through. I honestly, I've, I've been like directed to some of the Autodesk forums, but I've never like gone there first to search for items.

So maybe I need to start to do that more when I'm running into Revit nonsense. It's frustrating me. Yeah. And, uh, On search engines, mastering search engine engine, and advanced search and advanced cables. Uh, for example, let's say the Autodesk form. So, uh, mastering, uh, uh, advanced search, uh, within a search engine can allow you to filter out any.

Reasons and just give you ones that are specific to a certain site, let's say zero to desk for. So that's why I always, um, back when I was still a student, one of the things that were on my resume was, uh, Great, uh, search skills, uh, someone left and told me, how would you do put that, uh, on your resume? So I sat him down and told him, let's, let's try searching for stuff.

What, what is something that you're not finding? And we started searching for stuff, using some advanced search search skills. So. Uh, investing in, uh, knowing your search engine on your advanced search is really great because it allows you to find stuff that, um, usually you'd find on the, uh, let's say page 100 page, uh, 150.

You can narrow that down to the search page, using some. Search skills to always invest in that. Yeah. That's a great tip. That's a great tip. You know, like, uh, just always being aware of the search function in general, no matter what you're working in, you know, uh, PDF documents or. Like online codes and standards, or, you know, the search command or how to filter through data and parse out the interesting bits of information that you wanna see as a invaluable skill.

And I think that just like speaks to coding in general, kind of teaches you those things, like how to take a big data set and. Uh, do everything you can to filter through it as fast as you can. So I think that's a great tip. Um, I, sorry. Um, yeah, I wanted to ask you about, you know, what are your, uh, big thoughts on like where the industry is headed or.

Things that you're excited about for the future have been in automation manage. Yeah. So, um, um, I'm really excited about some of the emerging, uh, web platforms that I've, uh, Really dedicated to our industry. So the main one that is currently being introduced by Autodesk, uh, and that, uh, if, if you go back a year, uh, in time to a year 20, 21, you can see all keynote.

Uh, classes focused on forge. So forge is, uh, really a certain, uh, platform web platform that, uh, uh, exposes several APIs to try and build the, uh, let's say, solutions of the future. Um, some of these APIs are just, uh, running, uh, currently available software in the cloud, whether it's rabbit. So you can run an analysis of rev remotely over a cloud server.

And, uh, let's say you have a M C 60 model that you want to, uh, so you want to schedule exports on a weekly basis from a M C 60 server. Uh, forge can enable you to do that. You can create your own backend, uh, node JS or. Uh, technology you want for backend, uh, development and create your own backend servers that is scheduled to do that once per week.

And, uh, the 4g APIs, uh, you have APIs for document management and for BBC 60. So you can create an entire BBC 60 project from 4g. There's a series of APIs called B 60 API and auto that cloud APIs that allow you to do that. So you can automate all that, create your, your project C 60. Your models, initiate your models, all that.

And, uh, let's say you want to automate, uh, that task. We said exporting, let's say, uh, several forms from BBC 60. There are APIs to do that within for, and you can just run rapid server, have a backend server run, rapid instance, uh, in the cloud and automate that. Process. So, uh, forge is there to, to, to try and provide a platform for all these functionalities, automating cloud storage, automating, uh, uh, design, automating all of that in the cloud.

Uh, now, um, the question is what will the Fu platform or the future be? Will it be forge or will someone else come and. There's own series of APIs that do that. So there's also high, for example, that are, uh, uh, introducing a similar platform. So it's a platform similar to forge, uh, where they succeed in being the platform or the future, or will Autodesk have their own monopoly extended for another, uh, 40 years or 50 years?

Um, that's the main question, but what I see the future, uh, being is. Uh, several APIs, several series of platforms and APIs, web APIs, probably that, uh, someone can just, uh, use all those APIs within his own. Uh, let's say, web app or, uh, Website or whatever. And, uh, uh, so it's a series of a, of APIs that will define the Fu what the future will, will look like.

Which API is it? Is it all of those APIs, but anyone that is not gonna investigate in a new generation of APIs and a new generation of, uh, of, uh, multi-platform compatibility platforms is not gonna, is gonna be left behind. That's what I'm definitely sure about, but, um, For the future to come immediately.

Um, I think you're gonna, you need, you're gonna need to give it like five, five or, or 10 years to, or to, to have all those APIs be able to, to provide with all the functionalities. You need to have everyone be on board with those APIs and to find the persons that is gonna. Uh, create the, uh, platforms that is gonna use all of those APIs for all disciples, not just for architecture or for me, P or for civil.

So we need to achieve multidisciplinary, uh, um, functionality. We need to achieve multi, uh, platform compatibility. We need to. Uh, better performance and, uh, yeah, we, we have also a lot of trends right now, uh, that are a lot of buzzwords that are being used. Machine learning, digital twins, uh, Um, uh, the multiverse.

So these are a lot of buzzwords that you hear also is in the BIM, uh, industry. Some of them are, uh, really just buzzwords. Others are really interested. It's interesting to investigate. And, uh, so there's a lot of trends and it's, uh, constantly evolving business and one needs to. Keep an eye open and to keep up with all the progress.

Hmm. So the one you mentioned that really kind of peaks my interest is I don't see. I mean, I, I don't know. What kind of ideas do you think like machine learning could have as application to our industry? Like is just, I mean, I guess there is like, Infinite amount of different things that you could try to, uh, pass through, uh, machine learning in order to get a trend or, uh, a function based on a building configuration.

But yeah, I don't know if you have any specific thoughts on machine learning and how that could apply to our industry. So, um, I also had a class about that in year 2020. I'll try to, um, so. That would range, uh, from just simple statistics of a data, which is also attending topic, storing da data over a maybe cloud database and extract data from several, uh, um, formats, close formats to, to have a.

A more decentralized system of data and just running statistical, uh, functions to, to try and define the relations between all of that, uh, that will, can extend from that simple statistical uh, um, process to maybe automating having a certain visual, uh, operators that can, uh, use reinforced learning to, to just operate the software.

And. Find the optimized solutions on its own, which is similar to things that are being done within the gaming industry. So for example, you can go look up, uh, Mar IO. So it's, uh, Certain, uh, uh, project where a reinforced learning is used to have, uh, certain let's say software, uh, or a virtual, uh, gamer, uh, complete, uh, custom, uh, super Mario browsers or super Mario world in this case, I believe, uh, levels.

So a machine can just clear that level, self. Um, similar technology can be used to, to train a certain algorithm to try and, uh, configure stuff or try and just, um, you give it, let's say, uh, floor plan. It, it would, uh, find the best, the optimize, the solution to, to draw your dots, draw your pipes, draw your.

Place so it's really, uh, broad, uh, and the vast domain. Uh, but what we can start with is the simple stuff. So usually clustering to find simple patterns, uh, to let's say, uh, um, um, uh, collect for example, Uh, rooms together into H V C zones. That's something Sean throwing from Sigma AC solutions has been working on.

So he should be next guest. He should, he should have him on the podcast. He's really interesting. And has a lot of thoughts about the matter, maybe use a bit of casting to, um, let's say also align, align tags. So if you can find a pattern. A blank area is, uh, is, uh, is found on a certain drawing. You can just move your, uh, text to that, uh, area by finding patterns and finding imaging recognition algorithms.

So implementing such algorithms can help you do that. So simple stuff like that can be done right now. Maybe we can try investigating, try researching the other advanced stuff, reinforced learning, automatical that having a completely autonomous algorithm do all this stuff, but that's gonna wait a little bit and that's gonna take time and that's gonna take time to be trained and to achieve what we want, but we can start with the simple stuff.

Uh, for example, using some physiologic to match views to the. That's something. So the tagging thing and the, um, uh, physiologic matching thing are things that I've done for several, uh, uh, uh, firms that are featured at U 2020. So these are things that are currently feasible and that we can implement. So that's just at.

Try to implement the things, the simple, uh, things and start small and then go big. I think we need to take that approach and we can even go there. We need some time, but, uh, uh, it's not, uh, I don't see, see it as impossible. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, just start with the leaders and the little things that give you pain on a day to day basis, but I think that's a great point.

Well, Matt, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast and just talking to me about software and BIM and your career. Uh, I appreciate that a lot. Um, where can people find you we'll throw a bunch of links to the content and the, um, different. Uh, things we talked about in the description, but where can people find you if they want to reach out?

Yeah. So, um, um, you can reach out, uh, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, uh, on YouTube. So any platform we are on that has, uh, direct messaging, you can just, uh, Send the direct message and, uh, 99% of the time you guaranteed to, to get an immediate reply. The other 1% is, uh, maybe, uh, 24 hour delayed reply. And, uh, if not, if you prefer emails, you can also find our email on our website, on our contact page, uh, any, any, so, um, Just check out, uh, our, uh, social media links and just feel, feel free to reach out at any time.

Anyone, uh, if, if you need help with something, if you need to ask a question, if you just, uh, if you use a tool and have feedback, so. Any kind of anything you have on my, so on our contact page, I've also added something that if you just need someone to talk to. So I, for any reason, just, uh, don't, don't hesitate to reach out.

Uh, we always reply and I enjoy, so one of the, uh, things that I enjoy most, uh, on this journey is making new friends and that's how. I guess we met and, uh, uh, this is something I enjoy making new friends and, uh, making new connections and that's what makes, uh, all the effort worth, worth the time and worth the, uh, effort.

So. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Good stuff. Yeah. Thanks for listening everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes end standards interpretation.

Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.